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	<title>Comments on: The Source Of Morality</title>
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	<description>Reason without faith.</description>
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		<title>By: bongo</title>
		<link>http://www.whereisyourgod.com/articles/the-source-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>bongo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 01:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.whereisyourgod.com/?p=12#comment-59</guid>
		<description>Here is a file that deals with the origin of religion as we know it. Mostly it came from Sumer... and then through the influence of the original civil society from there. 
&lt;a href=&quot;http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dfx7rfr2_211crx6c26k&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Money-history&amp;energy accounting.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a file that deals with the origin of religion as we know it. Mostly it came from Sumer&#8230; and then through the influence of the original civil society from there.<br />
<a href="http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dfx7rfr2_211crx6c26k" rel="nofollow">Money-history&amp;energy accounting.</a></p>
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		<title>By: bipolar2</title>
		<link>http://www.whereisyourgod.com/articles/the-source-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>bipolar2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.whereisyourgod.com/?p=12#comment-58</guid>
		<description>** there is no xian morality at all **

Xian ethics is irrational, otherworldly, and impractical. It promises much, and delivers nothing. Jesus&#039; &quot;interim ethic&quot; couldn&#039;t outlast one generation of true believers. The fideistic irrationality of Paul of Tarsus with its anti-intellectualism, misogyny, and revenge seeking has poisoned the West for 2,000 years.

Chinese culture was far luckier. From that very rational, this worldly, and practical book, The Analects, attributed to Confucius (500 BCE!):

6:20 Fan Ch’ih asked what constituted wisdom. The Master said, “To give one’s self earnestly to the duties due to men, and, while respecting spiritual beings, to keep aloof from them, may be called wisdom.”

15:23 Tsze-kung asked, saying, “Is there one word which may serve as a rule of practice for all one’s life?” The Master said, “Is not &#039;reciprocity&#039; such a word? What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others.” [trans. S.R. McIntyre 2003]

No god is needed to police human behavior. All ethics is irreducibly social. Harming others can not be generalized; otherwise, no culture could exist. 

There&#039;s no need to invoke evolution (or memes) -- unless they&#039;re Lamarkian -- each generation of persons teaches the next.

bipolar2
© 2008</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>** there is no xian morality at all **</p>
<p>Xian ethics is irrational, otherworldly, and impractical. It promises much, and delivers nothing. Jesus&#8217; &#8220;interim ethic&#8221; couldn&#8217;t outlast one generation of true believers. The fideistic irrationality of Paul of Tarsus with its anti-intellectualism, misogyny, and revenge seeking has poisoned the West for 2,000 years.</p>
<p>Chinese culture was far luckier. From that very rational, this worldly, and practical book, The Analects, attributed to Confucius (500 BCE!):</p>
<p>6:20 Fan Ch’ih asked what constituted wisdom. The Master said, “To give one’s self earnestly to the duties due to men, and, while respecting spiritual beings, to keep aloof from them, may be called wisdom.”</p>
<p>15:23 Tsze-kung asked, saying, “Is there one word which may serve as a rule of practice for all one’s life?” The Master said, “Is not &#8216;reciprocity&#8217; such a word? What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others.” [trans. S.R. McIntyre 2003]</p>
<p>No god is needed to police human behavior. All ethics is irreducibly social. Harming others can not be generalized; otherwise, no culture could exist. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s no need to invoke evolution (or memes) &#8212; unless they&#8217;re Lamarkian &#8212; each generation of persons teaches the next.</p>
<p>bipolar2<br />
© 2008</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.whereisyourgod.com/articles/the-source-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.whereisyourgod.com/?p=12#comment-51</guid>
		<description>Another problem with the theistic argument from morality is that there is usually a conflation between morality per se and moral behavior.  There are really two questions here: (1) Why are we normally inclined to act morally? and (2) Why are some actions right and some wrong?  Evolutionary theory may well give us good answers to (1), much like the kind of answer you give about cooperation, etc.  (1) is a simple empirical question, and I honestly don&#039;t see why many theists think they have the upper hand here.  (Some suggest that we do the right thing only out of fear of punishment, but this too does nothing to support theism.)

But (2) is a very different question, as you probably know since you seem to have done some research in metaethics.  How one could appeal to evolutionary theory to adequately answer (2) is not at all clear to me -- though how theists could appeal to god to adequately answer it (most or all seem to endorse some form of divine command theory, which has since Plato&#039;s time been known to be very problematic) isn&#039;t clear to me either.  At any rate, you might want to flag this distinction -- i.e., the distinction between asking why we are normally inclined to act in moral ways and asking why some actions are right/wrong -- in your discussion.  Evolution does seem capable of explaining why we normally prefer good things, but it isn&#039;t at all clear how it can explain why some things are good in the first place.  Given that divine command theory fails (and I&#039;m pretty sure it does), I don&#039;t think the existence of morality does anything to tip the scale for or against atheism.  (Personally, I take it to be a primitive, necessary truth that some actions are right/wrong.  There seems to be something fundamentally wrongheaded in asking why, say, killing just for fun is wrong.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another problem with the theistic argument from morality is that there is usually a conflation between morality per se and moral behavior.  There are really two questions here: (1) Why are we normally inclined to act morally? and (2) Why are some actions right and some wrong?  Evolutionary theory may well give us good answers to (1), much like the kind of answer you give about cooperation, etc.  (1) is a simple empirical question, and I honestly don&#8217;t see why many theists think they have the upper hand here.  (Some suggest that we do the right thing only out of fear of punishment, but this too does nothing to support theism.)</p>
<p>But (2) is a very different question, as you probably know since you seem to have done some research in metaethics.  How one could appeal to evolutionary theory to adequately answer (2) is not at all clear to me &#8212; though how theists could appeal to god to adequately answer it (most or all seem to endorse some form of divine command theory, which has since Plato&#8217;s time been known to be very problematic) isn&#8217;t clear to me either.  At any rate, you might want to flag this distinction &#8212; i.e., the distinction between asking why we are normally inclined to act in moral ways and asking why some actions are right/wrong &#8212; in your discussion.  Evolution does seem capable of explaining why we normally prefer good things, but it isn&#8217;t at all clear how it can explain why some things are good in the first place.  Given that divine command theory fails (and I&#8217;m pretty sure it does), I don&#8217;t think the existence of morality does anything to tip the scale for or against atheism.  (Personally, I take it to be a primitive, necessary truth that some actions are right/wrong.  There seems to be something fundamentally wrongheaded in asking why, say, killing just for fun is wrong.)</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon</title>
		<link>http://www.whereisyourgod.com/articles/the-source-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 11:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.whereisyourgod.com/?p=12#comment-44</guid>
		<description>I should have made it more clear. I know the reason why women with bigger hips are attractive. That was my exact point: That we don&#039;t always think about why we do certain things or behave certain ways. And what I meant by &quot;we&quot; is the average person, not scientists. Ask the average person why they are attracted to a certain someone and I&#039;d say most of the time you won&#039;t get: &quot;Well, because of evolution.&quot; even though I personally believe that. I should clarify that right now actually thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should have made it more clear. I know the reason why women with bigger hips are attractive. That was my exact point: That we don&#8217;t always think about why we do certain things or behave certain ways. And what I meant by &#8220;we&#8221; is the average person, not scientists. Ask the average person why they are attracted to a certain someone and I&#8217;d say most of the time you won&#8217;t get: &#8220;Well, because of evolution.&#8221; even though I personally believe that. I should clarify that right now actually thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Healyhatman</title>
		<link>http://www.whereisyourgod.com/articles/the-source-of-morality/comment-page-1/#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>Healyhatman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 06:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.whereisyourgod.com/?p=12#comment-43</guid>
		<description>I have one problem with your post. You say &quot;why are we attracted to women with bigger hips?&quot; as if it&#039;s some form of problem. When it isn&#039;t.

We&#039;re attracted to women with bigger hips for an evolutionary reason - bigger hips means a wider pelvis, which means relatively easier births, less complications and therefore for the effort expended a greater chance of carrying on your genes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have one problem with your post. You say &#8220;why are we attracted to women with bigger hips?&#8221; as if it&#8217;s some form of problem. When it isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re attracted to women with bigger hips for an evolutionary reason &#8211; bigger hips means a wider pelvis, which means relatively easier births, less complications and therefore for the effort expended a greater chance of carrying on your genes.</p>
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